Tri-Tip Cheeseburger with Bacon & Egg (BGE)

jfm0830 wrote:

Thanks for sharing this but I am not 100 percent sure of where you are going with this and I do want to understand....

With my hamburger rolls (when using a stand mixer) you mix it and turn it out straight into a greased dough doubling pail. It rises for an hour. Then you turn it out, punch it down, hand knead it a few times, then roll it into a log and slice it. The slices go into the greased hamburger roll pan, which gets covered and you get another 1 hour rise. Then into a 375 degree oven or BGE.

So are you saying I should go straight into the hamburger roll pan after it is done in the mixer, and do an even longer than 2 hour rise there? I may be misunderstanding you, but I see two problems. The first is the dough is less "workable" when it is first formed, so it would be far harder to divide and place into the roll pan. The second is the larger rise. This batch of dough was the first I used a mixer on. I got a huge second rise. So much so that the dough rose to the underside of the inverted sheet pan I covered the roll pan in. If you want there to be a larger rise I guess I'd have to pull the cover off before the dough rises to the top and let it finish the rise uncovered. But then wouldn't I get 2-story high rolls? Sorry to be dense.

Speaking of dense, my buns have nowhere near the texture of ciabatta rolls which I think of as rather tough and chewy. They just aren't as soft as the store bought rolls which are very squishy. They are closer to that of the white part of fresh French or Italian bread.

Jim

Jim-- Ooops, sorry I did not present my thoughts clearly. I did not mean any reference to your rolls. I think they look fabulous, as I prefer more of a French bread like texture and flavor. In fact, as a general rule, I do not incorporate any sugars or sweeteners in my dough-- just basic flour, salt, yeast, water, oil, and maybe some herbs (oregano). As you said your rolls were more dense, I mentioned the ciabatta rolls to indicate my solidarity with you.

Rather, I was thinking of two things. First I thought of your father-in-in-laws quest, and secondly my need to avoid the "lead bread" syndrome of 100% whole wheat.

But you do understand me correctly. The two problems you note, the first about the dough being hard to work, I have not encountered that situation. Then again I have been blessed with my hand and wrist muscles being the strongest muscle group of my body (I have lobster claws). I also have an incredibly heavy marble rolling pin where appropriate that makes like a steam roller over the dough. The second problem of over rising is easily resolve. A greater rise means less dough is required, and hense that much of a lighter roll. That is how your father-in-law can get the hot dog rolls he seeks, and how I can get either the lead out of my bread, or at least a generous rise on my whole wheat pan pizzas.

On a side note, I cannot give personal testimony to this trick, but I understand many bread experts praise the value of incorporating an egg into the dough to effect a greater rise. Moreover, I've pondered the "self rising" crusts of store bought frozen pizzas, and I would not be surprised if one could achieve that by incorporating double acting baking powder into the dough. I really should experiment with that... I've just been too content with an already winning game.

Please let me know if I can further clarify, my friend.

***Edit note: it just struck me Jim! "Sorry to be dense." That's a good one, too funny! And if you were "dense," then I am an "air-head."

Beercuer:
Thanks for the clarification. This is a case where I kneaded to be more clear. I now understand the approach you describe. The problem wasn't that the dough was too firm to work with, it was the exact opposite. This dough comes out sticky and somewhat formless. But since you are not working it at that point it doesn't matter. You turn it out into a dough doubling pail. It just sags and sits. After an hour the stickiness has disappeared and the dough has some structure to it. You roll it into a log and slice it into discs to go into the roll pan. Even with my hands floured so it looks like they are the Pillsbury doughboy's hands, and very wet knife, I doubt I would be able to work with the dough right after mixing. I'm afraid I'd end up with a sticky mass of dough clinging to my hands and the knife and anything else the dough touched. Fortunately it isn't a problem for me, because I'm happy with the way the rolls turn out. I will pass the findings along to my father-in-law though, thanks for that.

Jim

"Kneaded?"-- Jim, given other circumstances, you and I could have made for some comedy team, eh?

What's Homer's expression? ... Oh yeah, "Doe!" I better understand as well. Proof positive once again that the best way to make dough is the way that works best for any one person. Some other thoughts came to me since yesterday. Sounds like your father-in-law favors a more cakey than bready texture, as indicated by the store bought textures. Other options could include working in some cake flour into the mix. (I sure hope he is not using a "better for bread" type flour. Another alternative is to go with a quick bread format, going with a baking powder rise rather than a yeast bread. Who knows?-- I just mention these in the way of passing.

beercuer wrote:

"Kneaded?"-- Jim, given other circumstances, you and I could have made for some comedy team, eh?

We would certainly have a lifetime supply of fresh vegetables that people threw at us up on stage.

beercuer wrote:

What's Homer's expression? ... Oh yeah, "Doe!" I better understand as well...

That really got a rise out of me! Since you have gone to all the trouble of explain this to me, the yeast I should do is explain to you my father-in-law circumstances. He was actually doing it as an experiment for me. A few months ago Dyal_SC sent me some mustard-based barbecue sauce from South Carolina. I was trying to think of something to do to return the favor and I sent him some New England style hot dog rolls which are side split. Dyal really loved the hotdog rolls and commented about their soft texture. My father-in-law and I laughed about that because we both prefer our own homemade variety to the soft and squishy supermarket variety. My father-in-law decided it would be fun to see if you could duplicate the texture of those supermarket style rolls. So it isn't the end of the world if he can't get that texture at home. Even though this was more of a theoretical experiment, and not a real-world experiment, I was very interested in what you had learned. Actually if we had discovered how to make softer N.E. rolls I would've sent Dyal_SC the recipe since he liked them so much.

So thanks for the info. I'm always interested in learning more about baking. I will be doing more of it now that I have a KitchenAid stand mixer. Also I am anxious to try some artisans bread recipes out on the Egg. Because folks claim that the BGE makes a better oven than the one in your kitchen.

Jim